Journal Entry 1 by avanta7 from Gadsden, Alabama USA on Monday, October 21, 2002

Well, the title pretty much says it all, doesn't it? But here's the cover blurb anyway:

In this provocative best-seller, the outspoken and controversial Bishop John Shelby Spong reveals how literal interpretations of Scripture have been used to: justify slavery; ban textbooks; deny the rights of gays and lesbians; subordinate women; and justify war and revenge. Spong combines current biblical scholarship, modern science, and, most of all, his deep love and respect for Scripture, to lift the Bible out of the prejudices and cultural biases of bygone eras. Eloquent, forthright, and compassionate, Spong liberates the Bible's message of hope for all people.

Thank goodness! I'm not crazy after all: I'm not the only person who thinks Scripture has been hijacked by fundamentalists, not just recently but historically as well, nor am I the only person who decries the "mindless literalism" that pervades the public discussion these days.

This book profoundly affected the way I approach my faith and helped bring me back into active participation in the church, albeit in a different denomination, after years of avoidance. Provocative and enlightening, it's a must-read for everyone regardless of faith.

Trade paperback. 1992. 

Journal Entry 2 by avanta7 from Gadsden, Alabama USA on Sunday, August 31, 2003

Bookring now forming. Taking names until we reach 20 members or Saturday, Sept 6, whichever comes first. The mailing order will be arranged to accommodate those who prefer not to mail internationally. 

Journal Entry 3 by avanta7 from Gadsden, Alabama USA on Saturday, September 06, 2003

Wow! Twenty-one people actually want to read this! That's a surprise; I half-expected this to be one of those "orphan" bookrings with very few participants.

The mailing order is arranged so the book goes around the world first, and then bounces about North America for a while, with a final hop across the pond to accommodate loopy1's request to be last. For "safety" reasons, members in the same state do not mail to anyone in their own state (except for that Canada thing -- again by request).

PM the next one in line when you're ready to send out the book. Changes may occur from time to time, so be sure to check for any revisions to the mailing order when it's your turn to pass it on.

Participants, please make at least three separate journal entries: one upon receiving the book; one for the review/comments; and one when it's sent off to the next in line. Feel free to make interim entries as you read, naturally.

Enough explanation, here's the mailing order (REVISED 7 Sep 2005):

GoryDetails -- Nashua NH, USA
Starry-Starry -- Powys, Wales, UK
boryha -- Adelaide, South Australia
Amberlee17 -- Sunnyvale CA, USA
jmg49 -- Woodstock ON, Canada
illinicheme -- Oakland CA, USA
16stepper -- Gilbert AZ, USA
bittermint -- Sacramento CA, USA
Cpetersky -- Bellevue WA, USA
Rendiru -- Carmichael CA, USA
daidy -- Flint MI, USA
CasualReader -- Orlando FL, USA
quorcester -- Chicopee MA, USA
krin511 -- Olney MD, USA
talon2claw -- Akron OH, USA
mysteryfan03 -- Moberly MO, USA
TigerLily4 -- Lincoln NE, USA
loopy1 -- Herne Bay, Kent, UK
Kernow8 -- Southhampton, England, UK
Ri -- Toronto ON, Canada
novasoy -- Louisville KY, USA
and finally back to me, avanta7 -- Yuba City CA, USA

Assuming all goes as planned, the book will begin its journey on Monday, Sept 8. Thank you, everyone, for joining! 

Journal Entry 4 by avanta7 from Gadsden, Alabama USA on Saturday, September 13, 2003

All did NOT go as planned (overtime, new niece, etc.) but the book was finally mailed to GoryDetails, the first stop on the bookring, today. Umm, after I got it all packaged up nice and neat, I realized I neglected to enclose the mailing order list, so Gory, when you get this, would you mind....? 

Journal Entry 5 by GoryDetails from Nashua, New Hampshire USA on Monday, September 22, 2003

The book arrived in today's mail; thanks, avanta7! And I'll enclose a copy of the mailing list as per request.  

Journal Entry 6 by GoryDetails from Nashua, New Hampshire USA on Monday, September 29, 2003

Mixed reaction to this one; on the one hand, it did address many of the concerns I have about too-literal interpretation of the Bible, but on the other it neglected a few things that I would have thought would be key to the thesis - the main one being why we should be interested in Jesus at all. There was no attempt to discuss spiritual beliefs outside of a God-the-Creator model. The only references to Hindus or Buddhists come in statements of inclusion - "all... can meet in the Body of Christ". (While this is a kindly thought , it might not be appreciated by devout Hindus and Buddhists.) Pagans, Wiccans, and atheists aren't explicitly mentioned at all, nor is a case made as to why people should believe ANY of the Bible; I think the bishop is speaking to the already-Christian-one-way-or-another community here. Not that anything's wrong with this, necessarily, but I would have thought he'd make an effort. Near the end of the book I found this statement: "...somehow in and through the person of Jesus of Nazareth the reality of God has become an experience in human history that is universally available." Perhaps that should have been his opening remark, to clarify his point of view; it seems that he is taking at least a fragment of the Bible literally, concerning the existance of God and of Jesus...

For the rest, I would have liked more footnotes for the scholarly bits - there's a lengthy bibliography, but very few pointers to the actual research about early translations, differences in meanings, etc. For me, one of the starting points in deciding what the Bible says to me is figuring out what it says, period... I appreciated the analysis of who wrote what when, both for the Old and New Testaments, but would have liked more of an idea of how this was determined - it's not enough just to say "scholars agree" or "it is now believed that". I suspect the bishop wanted this to be more of a popular-science-type essay than a truly scholarly work, but when dealing with hot topics one needs all the ammunition one can muster!

Early on, I spotted several instances where Spong seemed to be leaping to conclusions himself; for example, he asserts that "Moses was a murderer, but this was not a character flaw because his victim was an Egyptian" - I thought that Moses wasn't considered a murderer (by us, at least) because he killed the Egyptian to defend the man whom the Egyptian was beating. [Admittedly, the actual text states that Moses made sure nobody was looking before he whacked the Egyptian, which does not smack of a feeling of righteousness; on the other hand, he was still in the closet regarding his own Hebrew background at the time.] And speaking of closets - the good bishop's speculations about just why Paul was so vitriolic on the subject of sex is... interesting. I think it's a little too pat, myself, and can imagine lots of other variations on what Paul described as "making me captive to the law of sin which dwells in my members" - but it is interesting.

I think the parts I appreciated the most had to do with the New Testament, the gospels and letters; it's somewhat easier to dismiss the Old Testament declarations as being specific to the society of the day or to have been superceded by the coming of Christ, but the New Testament items are more challenging. I liked the comparisons between the gospels - some of this I'd noticed before but a lot was new to me, especially the theories about what order they were written in and which ones had influenced the others. [Here too I would have liked more explicit references as to who deduced this and how. When Spong writes, in reference to Luke's cleanup of Mark's gospel, "It was as if Luke was a professor grading a first-year student's thesis. Sometimes it was more than he could bear," I want to know how he came up with this (admittedly delightful) point of view.] I had an entertaining time thumbing through my Bible to see if some of the mismatches were as blatant as the good bishop made them sound - and then had to wonder why this never seemed to have come up in any of my childhood Bible-study classes nor in the sermons. Makes you go "Hmmm..." ;-)

One last note - I was reading the newest Terry Pratchett book, "Monstrous Regiment," and came across a one-liner that perfectly sums up my views on a too-literal interpretation of the Bible: "The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it."

Thanks for sharing this! 

Journal Entry 7 by GoryDetails from Nashua, New Hampshire USA on Monday, September 29, 2003

Controlled release:

I've sent the book on its way to BCer Starry-Starry in Wales, the next stop in the bookring. 

Journal Entry 8 by Starry-Starry from Llandrindod Wells, Wales United Kingdom on Friday, October 03, 2003

Received this morning, my goodness, that was a very quick dash across the pond, thanks GoryDetails. I'll get started on it tomorrow. 

Journal Entry 9 by Starry-Starry from Llandrindod Wells, Wales United Kingdom on Monday, October 13, 2003

This is a very thought provoking book. Particularly his chapters on the new testament. Spong makes a good case against taking the bible too literally, but in my opinion he doesn't go far enough. He plainly believes that there are parts of the bible that can be taken literally; he lists them towards the back, including the Samaritan woman at the well. (John 4) For me the whole bible is an allegory, in that passage Jesus and the Samaritan woman, representing a Jewish priest and a Samaritan priest, are having a discussion about religious truth.

There are several things he has left out of his argument, whether deliberately or not I don't know. Most of which Gorydetails has already pointed out. I would also add that he left out, for the most part, any discussion about the politics of Jewish life in the first century. He doesn't mention that the early Christian faith was split into factions under the leadership of the Paul, Peter and James among others and they fought (with words) for supremacy and power, each arguing that their teachings about God were the truth. This affected the way the gospels were written and may be the reason they were written at all.

I did enjoy this book though because he made me think. I found it hard to concentrate sometimes because my brain wanted to think over what he said two pages ago instead of reading the current page. I am still having trouble putting everything I want to say into words and this probably isn't the place to discuss my owns views anyway, despite what I have written above :)

Thanks for making this available Avanta7. I'll pass it onto Boryha as soon as I have an address. 

Journal Entry 10 by boryha from Adelaide, South Australia Australia on Monday, October 27, 2003

It's arrived! Thanks Starry-Starry! I'll start reading tomorrow. 

Journal Entry 11 by avanta7 from Gadsden, Alabama USA on Monday, December 08, 2003

Per request, Ri has been moved to last place on the bookring. 

Journal Entry 12 by avanta7 from Gadsden, Alabama USA on Thursday, May 06, 2004

Sigh. I have PMd boryha several times about this book and have never received a response. It appears it's reached a permanent standstill. I'm very sorry, everyone.

I'll be looking for a replacement soon, and will let you know if the ring resumes with a different copy. 

Journal Entry 13 by avanta7 from Gadsden, Alabama USA on Saturday, May 08, 2004

Got this PM from boryha:

"*bangs head on desk repeatedly*. I am a complete and utter idiot. I thought I had sent this off already, and was wondering about the journal alert only to find it under my uni books. I am SO SO sorry. I'm running off to the post office first thing tomorrow morning to get it sent off.
Ohmygod I feel like such a twit.

- Deb/bory
*hands head in shame*"

Followed by:

"Bible book is in the mail, it should be arriving at the next person's place in 7-10 days (hopefully sooner).

Deb/bory"

So, it's on the move again. Hurray!

And sgscarcliff has informed me she has her own copy now, too, and requests removal from the bookring.
 

Journal Entry 14 by AmberLee17 from Stockton, California USA on Monday, May 17, 2004

Found on my doorstep when I returned from a mini-trip! (My baby sister graduated from college yesterday -- still caught up in the happy family gathering mode!) Now to placate the cats!

Will add to Mt. TBR, regret that this is a pretty hefty pile at the moment. Will read and continue on it's journey as quickly as possible. 

Journal Entry 15 by AmberLee17 from Stockton, California USA on Saturday, June 05, 2004

Hmmm, fascinating. I was familiar with most of the Old Testament research, but the New Testament was most illuminating -- and somewhat disquieting. I'll need to ponder this one.

Thank you for the opportunity to read this.

I'll PM the next in the ring for her/his address. 

Journal Entry 16 by jmg49 from Woodstock, Ontario Canada on Monday, July 12, 2004

This book arrived while I was away at the cottage. Thanks AmberLee17 for sending it and avanta7 for starting the ring. 

Journal Entry 17 by jmg49 from Woodstock, Ontario Canada on Saturday, July 17, 2004

I just finished this today. I had lonjg ago noticed the discrepancies in the bible and can't for the life of me figure literalists out. I learned something about the history involved in writing the gospels and thus have a better understanding of why the discrepancies are there. Nothing has changed my mind though. I am still not a relieous person although I believe that in our lives we should strive to do good and not cause harm to others and not because of any reward or punishment. 

Journal Entry 18 by jmg49 from Woodstock, Ontario Canada on Wednesday, July 21, 2004

Mailed to illinicheme today. 

Journal Entry 19 by illinicheme from Novato, California USA on Thursday, August 05, 2004

Arrived a few days ago. Thanks! I've been looking forward to reading this one. 

Journal Entry 20 by illinicheme from Novato, California USA on Monday, September 06, 2004

Sorry I've had this one for awhile. Grad school got in the way.

It is difficult to think of something to say when you're following such great reviewers. My first instinct is to cop out and say "what GoryDetails said." But I'll try to use my own words. :)

I'm not going to rate this book on the star scale, because I must confess that I only got about halfway through it. I initially found it interesting, particularly the history of where the material in the Bible originated, but I eventually ran out of steam somewhere in the chapters on Paul. I'm not religious, and because I am not the book's target audience, my interest waned. The question I really want an answer to is: "Does religion provide any benefit over secular morality?" I have never encountered an adequate "yes" answer to that question (obviously I think the answer is no).

Thank you avanta7 for giving me a chance to experience this book. I'll have it in the mail to 16stepper by tomorrow morning. 

Journal Entry 21 by 16stepper from Gilbert, Arizona USA on Saturday, September 18, 2004

Spong has landed in Gilbert. Adding to my stack o' rays 

Journal Entry 22 by 16stepper from Gilbert, Arizona USA on Wednesday, December 22, 2004

I'm about halfway through the book and enjoying it much more than I thought I would. Should be ready to mail out early next week. Am PM'ng the next person in line. 

Journal Entry 23 by 16stepper at Bookray in Bookray, A Bookray -- Controlled Releases on Sunday, January 02, 2005

Released on Monday, January 03, 2005 at about 2:00:00 PM BX time (GMT-06:00) Central Time (US & Canada) at Bookray in Bookray, A Bookray Controlled Releases.

RELEASE NOTES:

Sending to bittermint. 

Journal Entry 24 by bittermint from Sacramento, California USA on Monday, January 10, 2005

This book arrived in the mail Saturday from 16stepper, thanks. 

Journal Entry 25 by bittermint from Sacramento, California USA on Thursday, May 26, 2005

I enjoyed reading this book more than I expected. Spong writes well and presents many fascinating ideas in the book. I appreciate much of his theology but did not think he needed to make specific jabs at other religious leaders or groups. The biggest complaint I have about the book is that I think he referenced himself too much in the notes. I also appreciated his explanations of historical context, an idea I have previously been exposed to in less detail at a summer bible study program. Spong's exploration of Christian love was fantastic. 

Journal Entry 26 by Cpetersky from Bellevue, Washington USA on Friday, June 24, 2005

I received this book in the mail a while back. My 12 year old immediately absconded with it. I guess I can't blame her -- she's deep in her studies for her bat mitzvah, and rescuing the bible may have greater immmediate relevancy to her than it might to others. The only problem is that it got mislaid in the malestrom of her room.

Her take on the book was that it gave good reasons why you shouldn't be a bible literalist, but she felt that it gave no compelling reason to use the bible as a spiritual resource in the first place. Maybe, because it is written by a bishop, the value of the bible is a given. I don't know.

I know a fair bit about bible authorship, and I don't know how much this book is going to be a retread of other works I've read on the topic. But now that I know at least where it is, I can read it, and send it along on the ring.

Thanks for including me in this group. 

Journal Entry 27 by Cpetersky from Bellevue, Washington USA on Thursday, July 28, 2005

I finally finished it. I guess it had a few other readers around here, namely my 12 year old and my husband. I apologize for holding on to it for so long, but it isn't like it was just me who had it.

This book had few revelations for me. I thought the author's theory about Paul was interesting (and new to me), but much of what he had to say I knew before because of a general interest in early Christian history and bible authorship.

I recommend the book, "Stealing Jesus" highly for those who want a different but complementary view on the topic of reclaiming Christianity from fundamentalism. This book looks at contemporary issues, rather than the bible itself.

I will PM Rendiru next and get her address, and get it into the mail.

 

Journal Entry 28 by Rendiru from Carmichael, California USA on Wednesday, August 24, 2005

This arrived safely in today's mail. I'm in the middle of a book at the moment, but this one will be up next. 

Journal Entry 29 by Rendiru from Carmichael, California USA on Saturday, September 17, 2005

I've put off writing this journal entry, hoping that my scattered thoughts would come together into a beautiful, insightful statement, but it is evident to me that this is not going to happen, so I'm just going to start writing and see where the journey takes me.

When I signed up for this bookring, I was a very active member of my church, a Lutheran denomination, but I was struggling with many of the beliefs and attitudes I saw in my church and in Christianity in general. My church at the time was a much better fit for me than the Baptist churches in which I had grown up, but I was more uncomfortable there every year.

I reached my breaking point last year. I left my church and the faith that had nurtured me during my formative years, the faith that was slowly eroding my love for and belief in God.

As I read this book, certain thoughts or phrases would leap out at me or resonate with the questions that had been rattling around in my mind for the past decade, but other portions would aggravate me so much that I would have to put the book down for a while. I suspect that much of my frustration stemmed from the fact that I was, er, hormonal during the time of the reading and was likely to be irritated by any little thing, but some of it was the underlying assumption that the Bible was the beginning and end of any spiritual guidance that anyone could need. A major frustration for me was my realization that I would never really understand the Bible because I am not willing to become a Biblical scholar.

Having said that, however, I would like to note a few of my favorite sections (and there were many):

When he spoke of the children of Israel thinking of themselves as the chosen ones, and of the attitudes that would allow them to believe that their God would bless them and curse their enemies, I recognized an attitude that I have seen over and over here in the US. The quote that I would like to remember is: "If you can convince yourself that those you regard as strangers, aliens, or even enemies are also rejected by God, then prejudice runs free and unchallenged." (70) This attitude seems to me to be one that we in the US often display toward non-Christian and developing countries, as well as one that I have seen toward homosexuals, both by many organized religions and by people I’ve known who are affiliated with fundamentalist Christian churches (and by people who do not claim any religious affiliation - this is by no means only a Christian problem or even one specific to organized religion).

"In times of high anxiety and stress, religious systems always seem to narrow their focus and become more rigidly orthodox." (199) From what I've seen, this certainly seems to apply to the Christian church today. I keep hearing about a need for people get "back to basics" in their religious beliefs and observations. To me, this feels like a request to stop thinking for myself and to let my attitudes and decisions be guided by the leaders of the church, who have their own agendas to pursue, including insuring that the church will remain as an institution.

At this point, I was a bit riled, and put the book aside to discuss this with my husband. This led to a comparison of organized religion and fast food:

Both make it easy to acquire a product for a minimal investment. Both feed you and provide some nourishment. If one doesn’t like a particular brand, one can find similar franchises with little to no difficulty, but the quality of what is served is similar at most establishments, whether you are looking for hamburgers, chicken, tacos, or pizza, and is usually poorer than a similar meal made from fresh ingredients at home. A steady diet from any of these places may keep you alive, but will lack certain essential elements and may lead to problems in the long run.

Many people lack the knowledge or ability to cook for themselves using only fresh, unprocessed ingredients. Some of us don't even know where to shop or how to grow our own produce.

At that point I went back to the book, as I will here. :-)

"A church that calls itself the body of Christ cannot reject or oppress or define pejoratively one who is the recipient of the overwhelming love of God. To do so is to deny Christ. It is to play church. When that occurs, the marks of death are seen in that institution. Those marks are present when the refusal to upset the religious folk becomes a higher priority for the church than the search for truth or the demand for justice." (239)

I very much appreciate the thought that the author put into this book. It's not likely that I will ever be going back to any Christian church, but I would like to think that books like this might help us recognize some of the blinders we have donned in the name of religion and help us to begin removing them.

Thank you, avanta7, for sharing this book with us. I'll PM daidy and pass this along as soon as I get her address.
 

Journal Entry 30 by daidy from Kansas City, Missouri USA on Wednesday, October 12, 2005

Recieved yesterday. I am looking forward to reading this and hoping that it will inspire some interesting discussions. 

Journal Entry 31 by daidy from Kansas City, Missouri USA on Wednesday, October 19, 2005

This book is directed toward those people who are already involved in Christianity somehow. I don't know if it would actually convince someone who is a Biblical literalist to think about their ideas - but then, would they be likely to read this book? Most people don't want to read books that would challenge their way of though but those that support them. 

Journal Entry 32 by daidy from Kansas City, Missouri USA on Monday, October 24, 2005

Have PM'd CasualReader for his address. One of my friends took a look at this book but it didn't pass the 50 page test for her but then I don't know if I would have finished this book either if it hadn't been for a bookring. I will mail this book on as soon as I have CR's addy. 

Journal Entry 33 by daidy from Kansas City, Missouri USA on Sunday, December 11, 2005

I've PM'd CasualReader several times and have had no response. Moving to the next person on the list so that I can get this one moving. 

Journal Entry 34 by daidy from Kansas City, Missouri USA on Thursday, January 12, 2006

No response from quorcester after a month, moving on to the next person. 

Journal Entry 35 by daidy from Kansas City, Missouri USA on Wednesday, January 18, 2006

krin511 says they will pass, contacting talon2claw 

Journal Entry 36 by daidy from Kansas City, Missouri USA on Thursday, January 19, 2006

talon2claw says they will pass, moving on to mysteryfan03 

Journal Entry 37 by mysteryfan03 from Moberly, Missouri USA on Monday, April 03, 2006

Got this today! This book has really been around for a while! I have a couple of rings in front of it and then will try to send it on its way! 

Journal Entry 38 by TigerLily4 from Lincoln, Nebraska USA on Friday, June 16, 2006

Got this a litle while back and forgot to journal it. Sorry for the delay. Will have it ready to send on shortly. Thanks for the ring! 

Journal Entry 39 by TigerLily4 from Lincoln, Nebraska USA on Saturday, April 07, 2007

As a cradle Episcopalian, Bishop Spong's work is very much in keeping with the way I was raised in the church. I especially liked his discussion at the end of the book about the works of Dietrich Bonhoeffer and his search for how Christ is relevant for us today, in our time.

Thanks avanta7 for sharing this book.